What an odd discussion. BaggyDave defends the reasonable side of the argument!???

I have to live in hope that the comments by certain individuals who do not care for children in their drinking establishments are doing this simply to be willingly controversial.

Why do we have a problem drinking culture in the UK (and a reasonable chunk of Northern Europe)? I'd suggest that the fact that people seem to think that there ought to be adult-only vice-den-like escapes from reality ("What? People have kids these days? Never!") simply underlines the fact that we treat alcohol, and the places that serve it, as "escape" rather than an integral part of our lives.

THERE IS, AND SHOULD NEVER BE, A PLACE WHERE YOU GET AWAY FROM FAMILY LIFE. If you think there is, then I pity you. You don't have to deal with them, you don't have to educate them, you don't even need to respond to them. But if you cannot deal with there being a younger child, one who has yet to become as educated, intelligent, and cynical as you, then I suggest that you look within yourself first before blaming the child or the parent.

Having said all this (largely in response to the frankly outrageous posts by some), I do think that some parents underestimate the willingness of children to learn to behave properly in the right circumstances. They need to learn about context, and it is up to the parents to establish this. Yes, it is annoying and time-consuming when you'd rather be relaxing with a pint, but we all share these common spaces (not just pubs, but parks, buses, etc.).

Do we REALLY need to go into this on SE23.com?

I must admit there are many things I take for granted in life, and even enjoy, and one of them is kids having fun, AND BEING KIDS! If you have forgotten about that, maybe you want to think back a little?

I probably shouldn't post this (having consumed my unfair share of a bottle of wine already), but I do find some of these posts rather annoying.

Ian, Baboonery and others, please get in touch with me directly. I have a 3 year old daughter who would like to give you a "huggle" because "you are feeling sad". You'd be amazed how different, and better, the world seems after that!